Barack Obama and Grover Cleveland

One of the issues that people who oppose Barack Obama's election to president like to trot out is the issue of his experience.  I plan to take on the qualitative argument in a future diary, but first, let's put away the exceptionally silly historical quantitative argument based on age, number of years in office, and tenure at different levels of office.

Only three men in the history of the United States, Andrew Jackson, Grover Cleveland, and Franklin Roosevelt, have won the popular vote in three elections.  Two of these men, Andrew Jackson and Grover Cleveland, failed to achieve a majority of the votes in the Electoral College in one of their three popular victories, and therefore served only two terms as president even though they won three popular elections.

A number of people have proposed that Barack Obama's years of experience in elected office are not suitable to election to the presidency.

There are, of course, a number of examples of presidents who had no or exceptionally little experience as elected officials prior to becoming president.  But I would like to propose the experience of Grover Cleveland, the only Democrat to become president between 1861 and 1913, a period of 52 years.  I propose Grover Cleveland because he was a successful Democratic president and there are approximate parallels between his experience and Obama's.

Grover Cleveland served between 1871 and 1873 a brief 24 month stint as the sheriff of Buffalo before he retired to private life for nearly a decade.  He became the mayor of Buffalo in early 1882 and was elected governor of New York later that year.  Just two years later, in 1884, the people elected him president of the United States, an office he assumed in March 1885.  In other words, the people's assessment of his qualities as a leader propelled Grover Cleveland from mayor of Buffalo to president of the United States in just three short years.  When he became president, he had only a total of five years of elected experience. Grover Cleveland's successes as president caused the people to vote to retain his services two more times, though he was denied the presidency on his second election by the people on account of shenanigans in Indiana that rigged the Electoral College.  

Barack Obama was a member of the Illinois Senate for seven-and-a-half years.  He has been a member of the United States Senate for three-and-a-half years.  With 11 years of experience in elected office, he has twice the elected experience of Grover Cleveland, who was (guess what) 47-years-old when he took the oath of office as president.

Can a man with recognized leadership skills and five years of elected experience meteorically rise to the presidency and successfully fulfill his tenure?  The historical record clearly suggests this is possible.  

Cleveland had a total of five years of elected experience before he became president; Obama at 11 years more than doubles Cleveland's elected tenure prior to the presidency.

Cleveland had two years of experience at the statewide level when he became president; Obama at four years of statewide experience in January 2009 will have twice Cleveland's experience.

Cleveland was 47 when he took the oath of office for president.  Obama will be 47 when he takes the oath of office for president.

Cleveland proves it is quality in remarkable politicians, not quantity, that matters.  In a subsequent diary, I promise to present a qualitative assessment of Obama's experience.



Display:


Neat fact about Grover Cleveland: (2.00 / 1)

He had a plug in is mouth from where he had a tumor removed...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:36:20 AM EST

Hooray for off topic (2.00 / 1)

but weird facts.  Recced.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:36:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Grover Cleveland is not the best example. (none / 0)

During the 36 years of this cycle, the two separate terms of Grover Cleveland were the only Democratic victories. But Cleveland failed miserably in the face of the Panic of 1893, when he turned control over the US public debt to Morgan and the City of London, while telling ordinary Americans that the free market dictated their starvation. Hatred of Cleveland was expressed in the term "Cleveland cafes," which referred to the depression breadlines of the time. Cleveland's refusal to alleviate the misery of average Americans would stack the deck against the Democrats in 1896, guaranteeing the decisive defeat of William Jennings Bryan and with it another 36-year Republican cycle.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/TA R410A.html

From Dean G. Acheson: "A Democrat Looks at His Party":

At the end of the [nineteenth] century there was a lesser, but serious, missed opportunity for Democratic leadership in President Cleveleand's failure to grasp the significance of the Populist and labor unrest... and in his cautious and unimaginative approach to economic depression. The unrest... did not spring from a radical movement directed against the established order... or the constitutional system. It grew out of conditions increasingly distressing... on the farms and in the factories. Its purposes were the historic purposes of the Democratic party... to keep opportunity open, opportunity not merely to rise from barefoot boy to President but for people to find in their accustomed environments useful, respected, and satisfying lives.... The conditions and popular response had many points of similarity to those of the 1930s.

Grover Cleveland... followed the right as he saw it... through a conservative and conventional cast of mind. The agitation seemed to him... a threat to law and order.... Coxey's Army was met with a barrage of injunctions and... the Capitol police.... The Pullman strike was smashed by federal troops who kept the mails moving, the union leaders imprisoned, and the union crushed. And the financial panic was dealt with through the highly orthodox and [highly] compensated assistance of Mr. Morgan.

The underlying causes... were neither understood nor dealt with... an opportunity was missed.... If, to take one of them, the problems arising out of the concentration of industrial ownership had been tackled when they were still malleable and subject to effective treatment, we might have been spared some aches and pains that are still with us.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2007/07/de an-acheson-on.html


A Beleaguered President
President Cleveland blamed the depression entirely on the Sherman Silver Purchase Act and the free coinage of silver. He pushed for its repeal in 1893, splitting, and, in combination with the depression, wrecking the Democratic party.

Breaking the Party Deadlock
The depression led to a new Republican supremacy and made the Democratic party little more than a southern, sectional party.

http://wps.ablongman.com/long_divine_app ap_7/0,9455,1518242-,00.html


by TomP on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:40:18 AM EST

I chose Cleveland (none / 0)

because of his age and the facts that surrounded his electoral experience that precipitated his electoral successes.  In fact, Andrew Jackson had less electoral experience than Cleveland, but he was older when he came president.  There are numerous other cases, too, but we always will be able to find fault in the administrations of any of those presidents to denigrate the argument for elected experience.  I simply am saying that length of time is not a reasonable argument, that the qualitative argument is the metric.


That's it, baby; let's go win this election!
by Beltway Dem on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:44:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But he wa snot a good president. (none / 0)

It is a poor analogy that actually undercuts your argument.


by TomP on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:55:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But he wa snot a good president. (none / 0)

I wasn't taking on the qualitative argument.  I was taking on the quantitative argument.  I chose Cleveland because he was elected three times, had just five years of experience, and was 47 when he became president.  The quantitative argument, as you acutely suggest, is silly.  It is the qualitative argument that is the matter of interest.  By the way, here is the list of the youngest presidents in order if Obama gets elected:

Theodore Roosevelt
John F. Kennedy
Bill Clinton
Ulysses S. Grant
Barack Obama
Grover Cleveland


That's it, baby; let's go win this election!
by Beltway Dem on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:58:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Honestly I don't think it's an issue (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton only has seven and a half years of elected experience, and folks around here seem to think she'd have been a fine president, but for losing the nomination.

The people for whom duration of elected experience is more important than policy or integrity are voting for McCain anyway.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:41:49 AM EST

Thats not true (none / 0)

she had far more experience.  I know that you want to discount her role as first lady, but it counts more in my mind than Obama's stint in a state leg.  Experience for a POTUS is far more than just legislation- its administration, its foreign policy, etc... Defend Obama, but Hillary is out of the race- stop it with the jabs just for spite.


by linc on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:46:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me (none / 0)

you are technically correct- concerning elected experience...


by linc on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:47:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excuse me (none / 0)

When people knock Barack Obama's experience, they refer exclusively to his elected experience.  No one gives him credit for community organizing.

Although that's not your point - your point is different, and duly noted.  By me anyway.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:20:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not discounting anything (none / 0)

I'm saying that no matter how much experience Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama have, some will rule them out because John McCain has more because he's, you know, older.

All three candidates had remarkable lives before going into politics.  Let's remember that.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama and Grover Cleveland (none / 0)

Experience isn't a question of "who has more", it's whether or not you have enough.  If you do, people move onto other things.

At any rate, Barack Obama has a lot of good legislature bearing his name from his short time in the US Senate - and tons more in the Illinois leg, although that's more of a matter of whether the Majority Leader likes you.

He's smart as hell.  He has the best organizational talents of anyone I've seen recently.  He's spent his entire life in public service even though since graduating law school he's been in a position to take virtually any job he would want.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:19:02 AM EST


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